Q&A: Subverting Genres and Working Through the Confusion of Heartbreak, Gyats0 Releases ‘Heartacher’
WITH MUSIC THAT MAKES YOU FEEL SOMETHING — a song begins to swell, and in your chest you know this song is about to rock you to your core. This is how it feels to listen to Jacob Kiely, better known as Gyats0, for the first time. In the Brooklyn-based singer-songwriter’s music, there’s something soulful, and you can't help but feel a swell in your chest during the opening chords of the jazzy piano on “Napkin,” with its whisper of harmonica and lyrics reminiscent of a really good, sad drunk night. Recorded in Brooklyn in January with several musicians, many hailing from Portland, OR, Heartacher is the product of collaboration and emotion.
Kiely, who “got the band together” to create this heart-wrenching album, began his music career the way any successful musician does: competing in a battle of the bands. Born to a bass-playing father, Kiely rebelled with guitar. He went to school originally to be in the wilderness industry but found he missed the nature of communion that you just can't get anywhere but in music.
Read below to learn more about Kiely’s origins, the process behind Heartacher, and how he feels about performing.
LUNA: What's your music story? How did you get into playing and writing music, and when did you decide to actually pursue it?
GYATS0: I took some guitar lessons as a kid — mostly my dad's idea. He's a bassist and played a lot of jazz — that was kind of his thing. Honestly [it was] pretty out-there, experimental jazz, not stuff that I tend to listen to, but very cool. I think he wanted me to learn bass because it's easier to get work as a bassist rather than a guitarist … There are so many guitarists out there — everybody plays guitar, and I wanted to as well, so I took some lessons, [in] middle school [or] early high school. [That] totally fell off, and I think around the time I graduated a friend of mine was like, “Yo, I want to put something together for Battle of the Bands.” I'm from Boston, Massachusetts — classic, I know. I was like, “Fine,” played a battle of the bands, had a great time, and then that summer kind of got back into playing a bunch; writing just for fun. I took a gap year before I went to Lewis and Clark College ... I wanted to work in park service or something wilderness-related so I did a bunch of hiking and stuff and explored the country with a good buddy of mine. While I was out there in the midst of the lack of civilization, I was like, “Wow, this is great, I love nature, but I'm missing connecting to other human beings.”
As great as it is to be out there by yourself in the middle of the woods, I felt like my life has to be something with more connection. Different relationships, building community somehow. Then [in] my freshman year of [college] I met a bunch of dope musicians. We all played a bunch together and I kind of got the bug. I was like, “Oh my god”; I was writing a lot, other people were writing. Nobody was that good but we were all kind of hyping each other up, like, "That's so good, reminds me of this guy," who probably we didn't sound anything like, but that kind of community is great when you're starting out because nobody is going to get better, ever, if your like, “You're terrible, you'll never be good.” It was super positive. After that year, I had a couple of experiences where I was like, “Damn it, would it really be worth it to pursue this more full-time?” and I ended up not finishing at Lewis and Clark and dropped out. I live in Brooklyn now, and I've been making it my full-time focus.
LUNA: Do you think your process is more lyrical, sound-based, or do you think the two go hand in hand, like they're inseparable?
GYATS0: I'd say it's definitely theme-based. It obviously doesn't happen the same way every time, but more often than not I will kind of have an overall concept — whether it's one song, EP, or album I’ll be like, “This is one or two sentences of the point or theme that I want to convey across all of it.” I definitely try to keep it short because I think musicians — or, everybody actually — can fall victim to "I want to say a million things, convey my whole ideology in one piece,” and … if you're a beast then that's great, but I think it's really hard, and I don't necessarily think it's as effective sometimes.
What I usually do is, when I have a spare second, I write prose in a notebook, literally just stream of consciousness. I’ll just write as much as I can, and then when I’m playing around with chords or something and I think it sounds pretty I will go back to the notebook and scan sentences and be like, “What does this music make me think of in terms of my life or stuff that is on my mind right now that I've written about?” and I’ll try to piece something together from that. It's very difficult for me to just write lyrics on the spot. Writing lyrics is definitely the hardest part of making pop music because … it's so easy to be corny or esoteric, and it's so subjective too. There aren't really objectively good lyrics. I mean, there are, but also there aren't. As opposed to if someone is shredding the organ, they're objectively a good musician — maybe you don't like it, but they are sick; they're crushing it.
LUNA: At their craft.
GYATS0: Yeah. I'd say it's definitely lyric-driven, but that's just my roundabout way of getting there. I try to have a pool of sentences and words to draw from. Once I write a melody I like, I go back and see what it would work best with.
LUNA: You said that you have themes when it comes to music. What theme does your newest album, Heartacher, lie under?
GYATS0: I would say the theme is confusion. The way that I've been explaining it concisely is like the whole overall feeling of the album. As it moves through, from start to finish is a feeling not of heartbreak. Heartbreak is intense — it's an all-or-nothing, black and white feeling. When your heart is broken, it's like an absolute: either I repair this relationship or my life sucks and there's no hope for me; “I'll never recover from this.” The idea with Heartacher was [that] it's more of that feeling where you feel both sad but also you are somewhat old enough or experienced enough to see maybe happy things. In reflecting on what it is making [you] feel sad, you can find some joy in it. That experience is quite confusing. Like, "This thing happened. It's making me sad but why do I feel weird?"
LUNA: Relieved?
GYATS0: Yeah! Joyful, or relieved. It's also the feeling of a kind of nostalgia that is so overwhelmingly nice and such a positive memory. Whatever you long for — that really good memory is so happy, but you aren't there right now, and that feeling is also quite painful. Sitting there and not being able to stop thinking about how good it was, or a moment of X, Y, or Z. “Here I am now, it's no longer happening, that's really painful and confusing.” The album is kind of like moving through that.
LUNA: Do you find performing it is a really emotional experience? Like you’re going through all of that again, or is this what you made it for: to express this?
GYATS0: We've performed the songs a lot but only once have we done the album in its entirety. It's definitely emotional — I was working on it for more than a year so it was quite emotional writing and recording it, but I've heard and played them so many times I guess it's more of “How can I do the best job executing so that the people who are watching me play and understand what I’m communicating?” I feel like I’m more focused on communicating when I’m playing than I am relieving the emotional stuff honestly. Maybe I should try to feel it a little bit more when playing.
LUNA: I'd imagine it kind of numbs a bit after playing it so many times.
GYATS0: Exactly.
LUNA: Do you have a favorite track off this album?
GYATS0: Personally, “Safe” is my favorite track.
LUNA: Why is that?
GYATS0: It was super fun to record. It's the last track on the album — the culmination of everything. It has that crazy breakdown at the end. Me and Ethan’s friend, Fabio, plays sax at the very end. Everybody who is playing on the album was playing on that song in the end. It's the resolution.
LUNA: Kind of celebratory.
GYATS0: Yeah, exactly.
LUNA: Do you have a philosophy when it comes to making or writing music? I think there's two aspects: writing the music and actually getting to record it with this group of people. Is there a philosophy you use when you go into the studio or when you go into writing?
GYATS0: I'm still trying to figure that out. Honestly, this was obviously the most pressure recording that we've ever had because it wasn't like something in someone's basement — it was in a studio, and we were paying by the hour so [we were] like, “Oh, we better do a good fucking job, it's expensive.” I think what I’m figuring out and still trying to learn is that I think there needs to be — I would happily play any role in what I’m about to describe here… I play bass in a friend's band and we played a show last night — I love supporting another songwriter but in this case I was the songwriter. When it comes to that, you have one individual who has written songs, and because they have written it all in their head they're going to make the final call on everything — everyone understands that. But besides that, you completely open up the table at all times to everyone's ideas and you always hear everyone out, and that just makes anything you're working on so much better.
Our drummer had a lot of ideas, kind of harmonic arrangements — a lot of really good ideas. Most people in the band are multi-instrumentalists. It can't be a complete "everyone has equal say.” I think musicians are just too indecisive for that to work, but as long as someone can make an either-or choice at the end of the day, the more talented individuals that you can bring into something, the better. Next time I record, anyone who's willing to work on something with me I’d be open [to]. The more talented people who put their minds to something, the better, is my philosophy. It would not be anywhere near as good without everyone's feedback.
LUNA: I think you get the most out of collaboration when you do that. For this album, what were the best and worst parts of recording? You said it was in an actual studio — it wasn't just a jam sesh — what was that like?
GYATS0: I think the best part was [that] the engineer we worked with was the fucking man. He was so cool. His name is Chris Gilroy. I literally would scream his name from the mountain tops. He's such a homie. Maybe this is just a stereotype but the whole band kind of had this idea where we'd go and there would be this cranky engineer who clearly thought we sucked and was just… Maybe I was just anxious but he not only got us set up in no time — so, technically proficient — but also had ideas himself about stuff while we were recording. He didn't chime in in an annoying way or too much but had a couple of really key ideas. You could tell he was invested in it and cared about making it sound good. That was one thing that was really cool. Another thing that was really cool was the fidelity of certain things. It sounded so much better, hearing the difference and hearing rough mixes in a perfect room. I don't think I'd ever experienced that before.
LUNA: So clean.
GYATS0: So clean, and [it] really keeps you honest about your playing because you can hear everything so well. Tiny mistakes, rhythmic mistakes — everything. I think that's the main reason to do it outside of your home studio.
LUNA: What was the hardest part of it all?
GYATS0: The hardest part honestly was … some members who came, there was not that much rehearsal time. The core four-piece had rehearsed a decent amount prior but then there was another singer who came — a guitarist, keyboardist. The fact that some people were flying in was just stressful. It wasn't bad. I'd be trying to teach a part to someone in the other room while someone was recording drums, and oh my god that was hectic. Also, me having to resist the impulse of — for everything expect drums — “Just let me play it, I’ll just do it.” I know the part. Ethan actually was one of the best at constantly reminding me, "Trust all these musicians. They’re all great — you brought these people here all together for a reason." I appreciated that. I'm so much better off for it too. Even if you're equally competent at an instrument, everyone has their own style. Having that mix of styles worked out.
LUNA: With any collaborative piece — especially when you are paying for it — time and budget can be so stressful. You've got to both make this fun and do it quickly, which is not an easy feat. Who or what are some of your inspirations, be that musical or just artistically in general?
GYATS0: My favorite musician of all time... I’ve got to say Prince. I will go on the record saying [that he’s the] greatest guitarist of all time. I don't know if I can say the greatest songwriter of all time. I'm not willing to go on the record for that, but even though the music that we make doesn't really sound like any era of Prince really… Listening to Prince as like an 18 or 19-year-old is just… Wow. It's so brilliant and it's so accessible, and it just gave me the belief that I could also write music. Do you listen to much Prince?
LUNA: Love Prince. I think even if it doesn't sound like him, the ability to experiment or be given the creative inspiration to say, "Yeah, let's do that, or try to do that” is something wonderful that only Prince can inspire.
GYATS0: The song “I Can Never Take the Place of Your Man,” [has] gotta be one of my favorite songs of all time. The riff, the chords — I'm is pretty sure it's 1-4-5. Major scales, probably like five chords… It’s really simple, you know. Anyone could figure it out and play it. There's no hiding behind [the] technique of playing something crazy… This is good because everyone who listens to it gets the same feeling in their chest when it comes on. That's kind of all that really matters. So, that approach has gotta be the most influential. As far as sound goes, I'd say bands like… This is kind of weird… I really like Hole, Courtney Love's band.
LUNA: Courtney Love is terrific.
GYATS0: So fucking good. Had a much more pop attitude than Kurt Cobain did. I don't know, but I don't think that they were ever like, 'Let's make something experimental. We're gonna do the best damn kind of poppy grunge music and we're gonna make a record that rocks harder than anyone else's record.” But she had a chip on her shoulder and it turned out just great. Both those albums, Live Through This and Celebrity Skin, just gotta be some of my most listened to of all time.
LUNA: Those are going on my list of what to listen to next.
GYATS0: Dude, you really should. “Malibu” is one of my favorite songs ever. Alex G also… big influence. Sound and songwriting. These days, saying that you're an Alex G fan is kind of asking for it, but he's so talented — you can't deny that.
LUNA: There's something about music — like you were saying earlier — that if you can feel an emotion while listening to it, that's the point of the song. It did its job in making you feel something, even if it’s "bad music.'' Bad music is hard to define — to each their own — but I think the emotion is really what's there.
GYATS0: I get hyped every time I listen to “TGIF” by Katy Perry.
LUNA: Oh my god, yeah.
GYATS0: So good! You can't tell me if you put that song on everyone won't be like, “Hell yeah!”
LUNA: You’re lying if you tell me you dont know all the lyrics to “Baby” by Justin Beiber. You're just a liar.
GYATS0: Facts, dude. Exactly.
LUNA: What would you say is the most frustrating thing about making music currently in this industry?
GYATS0: It's all frustrating. I think I’ve had a lot of time to think about it, and I’ve definitely been saltier, like, "Everyone’s fake; its only about your promotion on social media and shit, all these people who are getting famous for their music just have boatloads of their parent's money, fuck them, blah blah blah." I’ve been salty, I’ll admit it, but these days I feel like… I don't know, I still think that … if I didn't have to put my music on Spotify to reach people, then I wouldn't. I think what their doing is pretty fucked. I think their business model is fucked, I think the whole streaming industry is totally fucked. That being said, I still believe that the best and most universal and honest shit will eventually rise.
LUNA: The good shit will prevail.
GYATS0: It doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of crap that the algorithm will push and that will also prevail, but I have no choice but to trust the process and try to be as honest as possible and make stuff that I think a lot of people will enjoy. I hope people buy our album on Bandcamp more — that's really nice when you see that. Really nice when you see that a friend has not just streamed but actually paid $10 for your album. Money aside, I'm going to keep putting my music on Spotify and anywhere I can. It would be douchey of me not to since that's the way a lot of people listen. I want to make it accessible for everyone.
LUNA: If you're in a creative lull, what's one way you find helps to get you out of that?
GYATS0: Switch genres. Even if I’ll never release it. If I’m working on an album, trying to arrange a five-piece pop-rock like Heartacher, I’ll be like, “Fuck it, I’m going to play along to some ’70s Motown shit or make a hip hop beat or try to figure out the intro to a jazz tune” or whatever. That pretty much always works because then I can switch gears in my brain, and probably something in another genre will be inspiring. Sometimes you just can't write lyrics; sometimes you just can't write. I think I can always break a musical creative lull by doing that. Sometimes for like a week or two you've got fucking nothing to say, but you will always eventually have more shit to say.
LUNA: Good point. Last long-form question: What's next for you? Do you want to tour Heartacher, or are you working on something new?
GYATS0: The plan is that we would really like to record a three-song EP sometime this summer, to have it be released sometime in the fall hopefully. We'll get together to record mid-summer and do that, get that out. I'm playing a lot in Brooklyn right now with a kind of different make-up of the band than what we recorded because a lot of those kids live in Portland still. I'm really working on them to move out here — hopefully they do.
Gig a bunch, three-track EP, I would like to tour. I'm not going to tour if it's going to lose everyone money; I would like to find some act that's bigger than us who maybe would like to have us open for them, something like that. I'm always writing, and I’d like to have the same amount of time we spent recording Heartacher, recording like a third of the tracks and really sink[ing] our teeth into them even more.
LUNA: Dope! I'm excited about that! Ready for some rapid-fire?
GYATS0: Hit me.
LUNA: First tattoo?
GYATS0: Turtle on my forearm — got it on broadway for, like, $60. Has a ton of holes in it but I love it.
LUNA: Would you rather be a frog or a gecko?
GYATS0: Imma go gecko.
LUNA: Good name for a cat?
GYATS0: Pickles.
LUNA: Are you feeling more like a lemon or an orange today?
GYATS0: Orange.
LUNA: Second choice for a band or stage name?
GYATS0: The Magpies — been flirting with that.
LUNA: Song you want to cover?
GYATS0: What’'s that song… a really old Taylor Swift song. One of the first popular ones… “Wake up and find what you're looking for…"
LUNA: Oh, oh no! I know it but I can't remember the name.
GYATS0: “‘Cause you can see that I'm the one that understands you!" That one! That, but like if Metallica played it. Super hardcore but still in the falsetto.
LUNA: First concert you went to?
GYATS0: Def Leppard. Cringe.
LUNA: Dream collab?
GYATS0: Thundercat.
LUNA: The first album you remember buying?
GYATS0: The Blueprint 3 by Jay-Z, I think.
LUNA: Do you have a celebrity impression you can show me?
GYATS0: Hell no, dude! No way.
LUNA: Okay, okay — fine, whatever. Work on it and next time you can show me. $100 cash or one bitcoin?
GYATS0: I mean, I don't keep up with it but… I'd probably take one bitcoin. I think they’re worth a lot more.
LUNA: I would rather have the cash in my hand, but I guess I understand. Three colors you'd paint your house?
GYATS0: Green, white, and yellow.
LUNA: 15 seconds to shout anything at your 12-year-old self, what do you say?
GYATS0: Learn the drums before it's too late!
LUNA: One recipe you want to try?
GYATS0: I'd like to successfully make ice cream. I've tried before, unsuccessfully. I've made some dank ice cream.
LUNA: Okay, this is the last one: Fuck, marry kill the beach, desert, or mountains.
GYATS0: Ugh, that's so hard. Fuck beach, marry mountains, kill desert. That's tough, I might change my mind.
LUNA: I know. Well, that's why they're on the rapid-fire — they're all really tough!
GYATS0: Very true.
Talking to Kiely was like speaking to a really good friend you haven't seen in a while. After our chat I revisited the album multiple times. The songs still hit a nerve, convincing you to spend a little more time dwelling on how you really felt about your last heartbreak. That parallel feeling of both joy to have loved and total despair to have lost that love is deep seeded in this album.
If you're out in Brooklyn, catch Gyats0 at some shows or keep an eye out for upcoming tours and new music. The new generation of pop-punk carries with it some heavy hitters: musicians who aim at honesty even when it hurts. Listen to Heartacher and maybe let yourself cry a little alongside these sweet soulful tunes.
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